1 2 DPAIC DRAFT CAPTIONING TRANSCRIPT. 3 30 MARCH 2022 4 5 We just need a moment or two for people to join and 6 then we'll get underway. While we wait, please make use 7 of the chat to introduce yourselves, who you are, where 8 you are from, what kind of a day you are having today. 9 I'm sorry to interrupt, the person who has just 10 spoken not sure who it was, I can't see, they are coming 11 through very muffled, and also there are people who have 12 mics on so we are getting a little bit of interference. 13 Okay, I may, it may have been me speaking Monia, 14 let's try and see how we go. 15 Okay, yeah, it's already a little bit better, but 16 just to let you know, it's coming through a little bit 17 muffled. 18 TIM FITCHES: Okay, if I can request that everybody mutes 19 themselves and hopefully that might help. So I think we 20 might nearly be ready to get underway. I can see people 21 in the waiting room, hopefully coming through to the 22 main meeting. We'll give it another 30 seconds or so 23 and then we'll get underway. Just a reminder, if you 24 could please mute yourself when you arrive. That's very 25 helpful, thank you. Okay. Welcome everybody. Thank 1 you very much for attending the session today, for choosing to come and spend a bit of time with us, the Disability and Physical Impact Collective. My name is Tim, I'm going to be your Chair for the session today. I work in the evaluation team at Sport England and I'm really pleased to be on the Collective, because I get to work alongside some brilliant individuals from a range of organisations. Many of whom you will hear from today. Now, to make you aware, we are recording for the first part of this session. So, again please mute yourself and it's up to you if you have your camera on or off. Now we have been -- recording in progress -- we have been very excited to bring you this session today, and we're delighted that there is so much interest, I can see that there is around 80 participants. If you can imagine, if this were taking place in a real building, in-person, you would be mingling right now, eating pastries, having coffee with people from local government, national partnerships, governing bodies of sport, academics, charities, disabled persons, user-led organisations and many more. There is a wonderful cross section of the sector present here today. Just reflecting what an important topic this is that we all care passionately about. So today is a chance to hear 2 about the work of the Collective so far, and a chance to discuss and reflect on some of the challenges facing us and what we can do about them. We also hope many of you feel inspired to stay in touch with us in the Collective and maybe become a member and we'll talk more about that later on. Now, you will all, I think, have received the agenda and the slides over email. The first part of the agenda will be some short presentations from different members of the Collective, talking about the journey we have been on, the challenges, the change we hope to bring about and how we think we can achieve that. Then we are going to pause for questions, and have a break. After that we are going to go to the second main part of the session, which this breakout groups where we will be really interested to hear your thoughts, your experiences, your input. Then we will reconvene for a final discussion. So, before we get underway, just a few announcements about how the session will run. Again, we are recording this first part. Please mute yourselves, camera on or off. If you need any technical support, if things aren't working, you can privately message Cecilia Kumar in the chat, bring up the chat box and choose from the drop down who you want to send the chat to. We also have two BSL interpreters it with us today. If you would like an interpreter in the breakout 3 room with you later, we can arrange that, if you can privately message Emma Cunnington in the chat, we can arrange that for the breakout rooms do. Throughout the session, please make productive use of the chat, as you have been doing so far, to make comments or questions or whatever, reflections, you would like to share. So, I think that means we are ready to get going with the first session. So I'm going to introduce to Alissa Ayling from Sense who is going to lead the first part of the session. Alissa, over to you. ALISSA AYLING: Thank you Tim, morning everybody, I hope everybody is well, I see that some people have got the sun out where they are, lucky you if that's the case. I'm going to introduce how the group, the Collective came about and the journey we have been on so far to give a bit of context before going into a deeper dive with the detail. So, as Tim said, I work for Sense, which is a national disability charity, supporting people with complex disabilities, since the 1960s. I head up a our sport and physical activity programme at Sense which has been running now for about seven years or so and we have been working very closely with Sport England, on a few funded projects over the years. One of which was a project that we had challenges with in terms of our evaluation and our monitoring, and I just 4 wanted to kind of share with you that example, which has sort of led to where we are today, I guess in terms of the wider involvement of this. So the project we were delivering had an evaluation element to it, but we worked with a university that were using very academic kind of measures, and we really, they really weren't suitable or fit purpose for the people we support at Sense. Many people we support are able to self-report, for example, we were needing to explore alternative ways to gather the evidence, we knew there was a lot of impact in the work we were doing. So working with this university, they started to introduce some quite traditional methods of evaluation and we found that we, we basically weren't able to get that kind of rich data that we knew was happening at an individual level for the people that we were supporting through our programme. So we learnt quite a lot through that process, and that was a two-year kind of relationship and project. It led us to that question of: I wonder if anyone else is having these sorts of challenges across the sector and across our kind of networks in terms of the people we were working with. That time we were working in conjunction with Disability Rights UK, I basically started the conversation with them and said, these are some of the challenges that we are having 5 around impact and being able to showcase the work that we are doing, and Disability Rights UK had some similar thoughts to us and we thought there must be more organisations that potentially are in the same -- experiencing the same challenges that we are. So we both contacted our respective networks, so Sport England number of other social care charities, research colleagues, disability sport organisations that we were working with and alongside, and found that there was a bit of an appetite in this space in terms of those traditional methods, maybe they aren't exactly fit-for-purpose and is there something we can do as a Collective to address that and to look at influencing change in the future. So, we then got together, just before, actually before lockdown as our kind of face-to-face meeting. I just shared our initial kind of thoughts on this topic and this area of work to understand was there a, was there a place for a collective and how would it work and what would it look like and what would we all want to achieve. There was a lot of passion in the room and a lot of enthusiasm to get involved with this area of work. Over the first core of, I suppose, the first year of working together we really wanted to understand our vision, what was our kind of mission, why were we here, what did we all want 6 to get from the group? What were our future aspirations in terms of measurement, evaluation, in physical activity in this space with disabled people? So we spent some time working on that, working on our vision and mission and we almost wanted this group to be something that we could broaden and out and share with colleagues, to be an open door that others could be involved with. It feels like it's a long journey up until this point, but we feel we're ready to talk about, and other speaker will come on to detail talk about some of the work we have done today and well input from other organisations and individuals. I think one of the big things that we recognised was that we did some self reflection as group, and there are some definite gaps in terms of who we would like to be part of this group and so today is really about, not only sharing where we are up to, but inviting those additional voices into the Collective and those people that might have a passion within this area that we are unaware of, that could really contribute towards the continued, continued journey of the group. So, I think that kind of gives a bit of a summary as to how we have got to where we are today, and I'll pass over to Tim Bidey who will take you through a bit more of the journey in detail. I'll hand over to Tim. 7 TIM BIDEY: Thank you Alissa, isn't it fantastic to see so many people on the call today, interested in this topic. We have been watching the registrations go up all week! Hello everyone, my name is Tim, I work for an employee-owned social purpose consultancy called Traverse, where I lead our work in support of voluntary community and social enterprise sector organisations. Traverse first became involved in the Collective following previous research and evaluation projects, alongside Disability Rights UK, Sense and Sport England. As Alissa just mentioned, we were approached by those organisations to help them collate their early thinking around exactly what Alissa just described, to help those and other organisations bring their thinking together around the challenges that they had experienced, in this area. That they had heard about in this area. To think about the changes that they might want to bring out in the long-term to address this. Supporting this type of work is umm... it's exactly the stuff that we love to do at Traverse, it's in line with our social impact mission and we are really lucky that we get to do this alongside a lot of different organisations, and so what I'm going to take you through today is a bit more of an in-depth description around the journey that the Collective went on, when thinking through this issue of the challenge 8 that organisations faced and what changes they might want to bring about in the longer-term. Supporting this type of work is exactly the type of stuff we like to do at Traverse. It's in line with our social impact mission and we're really lucky we get to do this alongside a lot of different organisations. So what I'm going to take you through today is a bit more of an in-depth description around the journey that the Collective went on when thinking through this issue of the challenge that organisations faced, and what changes they might want to been about in the longer term. Some of you in the call in the research evaluation or delivery space might recognise this as a theory of change process but for those that haven't heard of that term before, don't worry, I'm going to walk you through it step by step. The first stage is what I said in terms of focusing on the challenge and really beginning to think about the challenge from a lot of different perspectives across different people, different organisations, and different sectors so we encouraged members of the Collective to step back from their services, step back from their organisations, and really think about what were the different challenges that disability, sport and physical activity and health and social care organisations face when working in this 9 space. To think about actually not just those challenges but what are the root causes of those challenges and how do they play out across the different contexts that these organisations work in? And they came up with these five problem statements that you can now see on your screen. So when we're thinking about the development of physical activity opportunities, environments that are inclusive of and accessible to disabled people, these are the five challenges that were felt to inhibit that. The first is that the current evidence base out there is fragmented, and actually inhibits the development of effective approaches to support disabled people becoming and staying for physically active. There's no go-to resource out there that anyone interested in this space can look to. It's in lots of different places, online, offline, some organisations know some things, other organisations know other things. And that's not very useful when you're starting out as a practitioner, an organisation in this space. The second main problem they highlighted was this idea of how popular standardised tools in this space, as Alissa referenced. They're not always necessarily suitable or specific enough to measure the impacts of physical 10 activity focused programmes for disabled people. That, or they require too much resource or prior experience for organisations to use them effectively, or use them on a one-to-one basis with the people that they support. At the same time, whilst those measures are not necessarily effective, we also heard about how organisations struggle to develop or adapt alternatives to those measurements that are still seen as rigorous, but are also context-specific and appropriate. And the weight of responsibility here isn't just for delivery organisations. Funders are also involved in this landscape as well. And we heard about challenges around how some funders intended to lean towards preferring standardised tools as the gold standard when it came to measuring impact, and would try and direct organisations down this path, perhaps even when it's not the most appropriate way to go. And then whilst all these are very common experiences, the fifth challenge that was outlined was this idea that actually, where organisations learn lessons around this, where people try to overcome these challenges or come up with specific responses to them, these lessons aren't always effectively shared between organisations, in the same way that the evidence base is fragmented. There wasn't any one single place for 11 organisations to come together, speak about their experience of these challenges, and speak about potential solutions. So these were the main challenges that were felt to limit the development of physical activity opportunities in environments that are inclusive of and accessible to disabled people. So those are the challenges. The next stage was thinking about what is the big picture that we would like to create? What are the opposite of those challenges? What is the world that we would like to see instead? We worked with the Collective to help them think through the long-term changes they'd want to contribute to or enable to address these challenges. I think the easiest way of thinking of this sometimes can be as a newspaper headline, if your project or if the Collective was a success, what would the newspaper headline be that lands on your doorstep, your inbox, tomorrow morning? The one that the Collective reached after a lot of discussion was actually a world where physical activity opportunities and environments exist across sectors, create with and for disabled people. But actually, if that's the bigger change we want to see, there are changes that we need to achieve before that, in order for that to be a reality. And these are the main two longer term changes that the Collective 12 wants to bring about. One, to improve collaboration among disability, sport and physical activity and health and social care sectors around physical activity, and two, to improve the evidence base and continued learning of how to deliver effective physical activities by and for disabled people across relevant sectors. So really responding to that challenge of how both the evidence base is fragmented and how actually organisations can find themselves fragmented and cut off from each other in their experience of this. So bring organisations together and bringing learning together is a key kind of longer term aim for the Collective. But if those are the longer term changes that the Collective wants to been about, there's an acknowledgement, I think, by everyone in the group that what we're talking about here is not small. We're talking about quite sweeping changes, really, changing cultures around how we approach research and evaluation and measurement and design of interventions in this space. And so, actually, in the spirit of thinking about the first step, we encouraged the Collective to think about well, what's the role that it can play in bringing about those changes? And the Collective is just one group of organisations, and there are many organisations and different groups out there. What are 13 the strengths of the Collective? That's where we essentially came with thinking about the shorter term changes that the Collective wants to been about. And wants to hold itself responsible to. And these are the two kind of key changes the Collective will be focusing on in the short-term. One, supporting a more nuanced use of the evidence base to help organisations design interventions. So moving away from a siloed culture where organisations are constantly required to reinvent the wheel because they don't have that information to draw on. And to do that, they're looking to kind of support sharing of evidence between organisations, improve the existing evidence base, and improve organisations' understanding of how to draw on evidence base. And the second shorter term change is focused on increasing how often specific appropriate measures are used by organisations. So among away from a culture of standardised measures where they're not appropriate, and moving towards a culture where we're actually using measures that are appropriate to the context in which they're being used in. And there's an acknowledgement here that again, this isn't just about delivery organisations. This also requires a change in approach when it comes to funders and commissioners. It's about 14 ensuring organisations are supported to adapt and apply different measures, and fundamentally in this space, it's about the more consistent use of co-production approaches to make sure that measures are being used in the right way in the right spaces. So this is what the Collective came to, in terms of what were the challenges that organisations faced in this area? What is the world that the Collective wants to see in the longer term? And what are some of the changes that we will need to been about in order to get to that world, both in the long-term and the shorter term? I'm now going to pass over to Klara, who will tell you a little bit more about what the Collective is proposing it will actually do in order to start been about these changes. KLARA: Thanks, Tim. Yes, I'm going to, as Tim says, talk a little bit about the sort of how do we get there, how do we make that change? So my name is Klara, and my pronouns are she/her, and I joined the Collective when I worked at Leonard Cheshire, which lots of you may know, and I was working on a big project to learn how they could support all the disabled people who were part of the organisation, so staff, volunteers, people in our programmes, and people in our ... that's how I became 15 part of it. I now work at Stonewall, the LGBT charity but I'm still hanging here at the Collective, so it's good to see so many people here. The observants amongst you may have noticed that I'm actually coming to you from Pret today. I had an electric outage at my house so please excuse me if it's a little bit noisy in the background. So yes, talking to you about how we get to make that change that we want to see. So there's a few things that the Collective has already started doing in the time since we kind of started to get together. And then there's a few things that we had ideas about, that we wanted to wait a little bit before getting started on, so I'll talk to you about both of those things. So something that we've already got going, which Tim mentioned briefly, is co-production training. So we've got a few bits of expertise around co-production and who have really encouraged us to see how important that is as part of what we do. So as many of you know, disabled people and Disability Rights activists often advocate that all types of research, and development, to programmes, it should include disabled people in the process, where the action is taken by disabled people with disabled people rather than kind of on their behalf or just in consultation. And we really believe that 16 that participatory approach is essential to what we do at the Collective. So we have already run a couple of trainings, both for the group itself and with some affiliates, so that everybody has a really good grounding within the Collective, and as to what co-production is, which will lead on to some of our ideas which I'll talk about in a moment. We've also been doing a bit of input into Sport England's evaluation strategy. So one example of that is that we were asked to give some feedback on the Sport England active lives survey which some of you might be familiar with, which looks to find out about people all around England, participation in physical activity, and barriers to doing that as well. So as a group, we've kind of fed in to that, and we've advised from the perspective of organisations which support disabled people. And another really important thing that we're doing at the moment, and which this event itself kind of forms part of, is something that Alissa also mentioned briefly, which is making sure that this network itself has really great representation for all the communities who are maybe experiencing some of the barriers to participating in physical activity. So we know obviously this group is focused on disabled people, but 17 if we're taking sort of intersectional view, we know that there are particular barriers faced by disabled people who have maybe (inaudible) careers, or from faith communities, or from communities of colour, or from LGBTQ communities. So we really want to make sure that those distinct barriers that those parts of the disabled community are acknowledged and that we're addressing them within all of the work of the Collective. So we wanted to wait to go ahead with some of our other ideas until we'd done a bit of that broadening of our own network, and one of those things is this event, where we're really hoping that some other people might want to get involved in what we do. So when we feel soon that the Collective is ready to go ahead with some of our work in earnest, obviously if there's people who are new to joining us, we'll be really, really open to hearing other ideas but we thought it would be helpful to give you a few examples of ideas that we had so far, so you can kind of imagine the sorts of things that you could do if you were also part of the Collective or part of the network in some way. So our ideas are about action. So the first one is about knowledge exchange so I'll just explain what that means. So we feel there's a need for some sort of platform where all our organisations can share and access some 18 learnings, evidence, things like case studies, and data, and what does and doesn't work around physical activity programmes. So, (background noise) lots of people are building up a lot of learnings but we don't always have that opportunity to share what has worked well and what hasn't and it means we are kind of at a disadvantage and we can't move forward as a sector, so we also know that often smaller organisations tend to miss out on these opportunities to share learnings, sometimes those are bigger networks or may be based in London or kind of, often encouraged to be really involved in sharing learning events when they do happen, whereas others end up getting left out. So we thought that some sort of platform that brings together everyone's learning and evidence can be accessed by people all around the country to help and build their own evaluation tools in the best way possible would be a really positive step. So that is something that we are thinking about at the moment. Another one is this second one, standardised and non-standardised [Inaudible] Tim touched on this briefly, but the, the meaning of this is that funders often require, when we are running programmes with funding, the funders will often require us to use kind of standardised tools as part of evaluating that. I'm sure lots of you will be familiar with using a 19 particular survey [Inaudible] all of the different programmes that they fund and ask them to get participants to fill out the survey at the end of the programme owe, they might participate in a very, very different types of programmes, but they are all being asked to fill out the same survey and they might have very different accessibility needs as well, and yet they are still having to try and make it work to use this same type of survey. So, we have identified that as a problem that lots of our organisations, I'm sure lots of people have experienced, so the idea of this part of the work of the Collective would be to kind of capture what tools we are all currently using, what does work, what doesn't work. How we can, maybe adapt tools, or even to work with funders, really good example or where we worked alongside funders to say this is how we need to slightly change this survey for it to be suitable for them. Then we can share this practice and hopefully be at a place where everyone is able to use tools that make more sense for the communities that they are working with. And the last one here is co-production. I mentioned that we have done a bit of co-production training in the Collective itself and we have got that kind of, some of that expertise in the group but I'm sure lots of you also have practice at -- teach about 20 co-production too, which will be really interesting to hear about. What we want to do in this sense with the Collective is potentially kind of agree on some guidance or best practice for how co-production can best be built into the development of evaluation tools for measuring physical activity in various programmes. So, how can we ensure that people, disabled people, our able to contribute and be part of actually developing those tools themselves and also into the process of evaluations, so to have a sort of more equitable process for evaluation itself. So, those are just a few ideas on how quickly they have may be sparked some ideas of your own, or maybe you are doing some really similar things already, but it would be really interesting to hear about in our breakout groups. So I'm going to pass back to Tim to introduce that next activity. TIM FITCHES: Thank you, Klara, and indeed thank you Alissa and Tim, but particularly Klara for doing a magnificent job there in your local Pret. I would like to apologise for the noise there, I'm sorry if that affected your ability to hear what was being said or to use the interpreters. We have had a lot of very hard work to organise the session, but we weren't counting on an electrical outage, so sorry about that, thank you also to our interpreters, Monia and Siobhan for coping with 21 that. So we're going to pause there, we've got about five minutes before we go to a break. We'll cause just to allow you to reflect on what you have heard. We have had a couple of questions in the chat already, interesting discussion going on about disability data how we collect or capture the relevant data. Perhaps at the moment if I can invite in one of the speakers to perhaps share a thought on that, maybe Tim or Alissa, or anyone else who would like to post a question, please take the chance, or of course, you can hold your questions for the breakout groups, that's fine too. Just a few reflections from me, of course, I've been part of this journey as well, and it's been enormously rewarding for me personally and for Sport England. It's been a very reflective process, and certainly we have been guilty of some of the challenges, you know, of trying to use validated or standardised measures which just haven't worked particularly well for the audience, and it's been enormously valuable to have the Collective, the expertise of all the members and to be part of the process to really open up how we can evaluate effectively for disabled, physical activity opportunities. So my perspective is that the Collective has got to a point where its carried out some really important, foundational work to crystallise the vision, 22 what the challenges are, what the changes we are going to introduce. (background noise) just getting a bit of background noise, if I can remind you to mute yourselves. The point as well, that we hope, through this session today, that some of you are inspired to join us on the next part of the journey to explore some of those action areas and to add your own contributions too. So we had the question in the chat around disability data. No other questions at the moment. Would anyone from the panel, any other speakers like to share any thoughts on that particular topic? Please just come off mute if you would like to. >> I'm happy to speak to that, Tim. I'll give it a whirl, and then maybe other Tim and Alissa might want to come in as well. I think it's one of the challenges that we have been discussing as a group for quite a long time. I guess my reflection on it is that I feel like we're at the point where we really acknowledge and in I think in some of the discussions we have had in Sport England as well Tim we can see some changes around this, we have really acknowledged that some of the standardisation of the tools isn't working for people, and therefore, if, if for example, if questions are very complex or very kind of abstract, obviously that affects and impacts the data that we are collecting it becomes 23 less meaningful if the questions aren't meaningful to the individuals that we are asking. I think that's a kind of really fundamental issue that we have, that we have kind of acknowledged exists and have increasingly spoken to partners about how we can work together to be more flexible and to make sure that those questions are appropriate for people and that they are meaningful to them, I still think there is a real challenge around some of the advantages obviously of using some of those kind of standardised questions and validated tools, are the consistency of the data that we can see, which helps not just us as kind of funders, but I think it also helps organisations in terms of building the strength of their evidence-base. So I think there is a really big question in there, I don't kind of have the answer to, but I'm certainly grappling with, how do we overcome what seems like quite significant challenges on both sides of that? I think, ultimately, I think it sort of speaks to the point that Anna made in the chat as well, it has to be meaningful for the individuals who are being asked questions, which can be quite lengthy questions, they can be quite in-depth questions. So, perhaps there is something there as well, round how we can communicate the use of umm... of the information that we are kind of asking for, why we are doing it and 24 what we are not doing to the extent we could do at the moment. So yeah, just couple of reflections from me on that. TIM FITCHES: Thank you, Cecelia. Thank you to Anna, for yes, your point in the chat about co-production. I'm certainly learning about co-production and developing my knowledge of what it is, and the sort of equal footing that it has to have. I think that's a great point. Would anyone else like to come in from the panel on either of those points around disability data or co-production? >> I can perhaps add to Cecilia's response, to build on what Cecilia is saying, you know, this movement against standardised tools for me is a recognition that when you are looking at disability and when you are looking at long-term health conditions, a one-size-fits-all approach does not work. So, I think, for me this makes two things about the Collective particularly key. One is that focus on knowledge-sharing, from my perspective the Collective isn't trying to replace one, one-size-fits-all approach with another, this is about building a more nuanced approach and building links between organisations to develop those nuanced approaches. The second I think is the involvement of funders in the Collective, is absolutely key, as I 25 mentioned in my presentation, nuanced measures, you know, work quite well at an organisation level, but speaking as an external and independent evaluator, you run into challenges when you are evaluating at a programme level and suddenly you are looking across a grant programme or a big schemer of work, trying to speak to the impact of that, but without any common measures. I think it's really so important that we can bring funders into that conversation around what is the, what is the compromise between the organisational level and the programmatic level. Then, just in response to the question in the chat around disability data and people not necessarily wanting to disclose or label themselves as disabled, I think, actually what we are talking about today focused on disability is really, really relevant when we are talking about long-term health conditions as well. So, for me, I think it's important in the spirit of kind of knowledge-sharing, that we are not just exclusively focusing on disability thin Collective's work, but we think about where else it might be relevant. I think taking some of this learning into the long-term health condition space will also be incredibly important going forwards and support a lot of different organisations in different ways. TIM FITCHES: Thank you Tim. I'm going to bring that chat 26 to a close so that we can stay on time and get to a break, but I just wanted to acknowledge some of the other comments in the chat, thank you to everyone that contributed. Edgar, thank you for your point about standardised language and approaches. The link from Havier, thank you. Dave, agreeing with some of those points, Anna this tension between standardisation and seeking to be accessible and inclusive, and, Anna, Anna web, the social model of disability how society can exclude. So, thank you, I'm going to ask you to hold some of those ideas for the breakout rooms which is where we are going to go after the break. So, how this will work, we'll have a fifteen-minute break, so I'll ask you to return at 11.30. I'll invite you just to mute yourselves, turn off your cameras, but stay in this meeting if you would please. We'll rejoin at 11.30, when I'll explain everything you need to know about the breakout rooms. But really this will be your chance to share some of your reflections, some of your experiences, perhaps, of the challenges that we face, and some ideas. Hopefully make some connections and meet some new people as well. So, on that note, thank you very much to those who have contributed to the first part. We're going to take a fifteen-minute break, if you can come back at 11.30. Thank you. 27 [Short Break] >> : We're back for now. My understanding is that we will be here while you explain the breakout rooms, but then if there's no one that needs it, it won't go into the breakout rooms, is that right? TIM FITCHES: I believe so. I'm going to defer to Emma on that one, who is coordinating those things and ask again if anybody would like an interpreter in the room with them. >> That's correct, and people can move back into the main rooms, so if required we'll just move back into the main room. Yeah, there will be eight rooms that everyone will move into now. TIM FITCHES: Okay, are we clear on that, Emma? EMMA: Yeah, eight rooms that we will move into. If anyone needs it, they can move back. TIM FITCHES: Welcome back. If you're just coming back from the break, you've just caught us doings some of the background organisation as a team furiously to coordinate things, and we just wanted to make sure things were going to run smoothly for the breakout rooms, I hope you've had a good break, a chance to stretch your legs, get a drink. I've had a hot cross bun so I'm feeling pretty good, especially after such a good first session from everybody. During the session 28 there's been a few more comments in the chat so thank you, including from Joff at -- is it Y&S, yachting and sailing, I believe. Sorry we missed your hand up in the first session. Where we are now, we've got about half an hour for some breakout groups, and this is your chance to share your experiences and hopefully meet some new people too. These are the questions we'd like you to consider, but by all means feel free to deviate a little bit. So what's your reaction to what you've seen and heard about the collective? Which are the areas that Tim and Klara and Alissa talked about feel most important to you or your organisation, or the people you support? Where, perhaps, could you get involved? Where have you seen real life experiences that illustrate some of these challenges? And what are your general hopes and fears, either about the Collective or about the topic as a whole? So we'll shortly allocate you to your breakout rooms. Each room will have a facilitator who will take some notes, and guide you through the discussion. There will be a warning, I think, with a few moments left at the end of the breakout room and we'll then bring everybody back to the main room for a final discussion and any further questions and discussion. So thank you very much. Oh I apologise one more thing. If anybody 29 would like an interpreter in their breakout room, again, if you could just privately message Emma so we can coordinate that, and Emma, I think with that, it's over to you, if you could assign the breakout rooms please. [breakout rooms]. TIM FITCHES: Right, I think the break-out groups have come back to the main room. I am just looking for confirmation so that has happened, but I think from the number if participants that appear on the screen -- CECELIA: There's 62 of us, so I think we're all good. TIM FITCHES: That's the confirmation I needed. Thank you very much, Cecilia. So welcome back to the main room and thank you to all of you for the time, the energy and contributions to those breakout rooms. I was part of one. We had a fantastic sort of exchange between different partners and different individuals in the room. So where we'd like to go now is to just invite each facilitator to share one brief point from their group and then we'll move into a wider discussion where we invite anybody to share any comments or questions, and the panel, as well. So I have a list of all the facilitators. If I go first with one of my group's points and then hand on to you, Cecilia, and then go through each of the facilitators in turn. So what was my point? Tell you what, Cecilia, can I come to you 30 first, actually? Because I'm still scrabbling around with my notes trying to find a point. CECELIA: You can, we had a useful discussion and different organisations in terms of disability-specific and non-disability-specific, so we talked quite a lot around inclusion in terms of collecting data, but the biggest point I took away from it was around the needing to keep the focus on individuals, on the disabled people who are participating in physical activity and how the experience that they have needs to be at the heart of why we're evaluating and why we're monitoring. So there was a lot around the tension there and sometimes kind of requirements of other funders, and across other funders as well, so potentially something there for us to think about obviously in terms of the experience that organisations have in terms of applying for funds from lots of different groups, but the real importance of always bringing that back to the individual in terms of the purpose and the why we're doing this in the first place. TIM FITCHES: Thank you, Cecilia. I think I'll just build on that point from my group is the phrase many had was "Closing the loop" and playing back the data to show how it had been used, and how it was relevant to the service and relevant to the individual. That felt absolutely 31 essential, and then yes, that balance, organisations like Sport England, how do we collect aggregated data without forgetting that every single data point is an individual who has to complete a form or provide that data. Thank you. Let's come to Matthew Wade, your group, Matthew? Do you have a point you'd like to share? MATTHEW: Thanks, Tim, a challenge just highlighting one point I think, some really good discussion from our group. I think the point I'll share here is around standardised measures, and -- look down, look up, I can just see my face, quite scary. Sorry guys. Yeah, standardised measures, and we talked about it not just being the measures themselves but also not just dismissing that measure because it may or may not work but also the method of delivery, how we can get that to be Collective. Is it a questionnaire, is it an easy read version? Is it online or is it paper? Is it verbally delivered? Thinking about to be how that can have an impact in what the data is collected and presented back into what you're saying there around that aggregated format so it's not just dismissing measures, but to think about, I guess, closing the loop about the whole journey of that data collection. And then sharing knowledge around those methods, but also what works and 32 what does work across the various different aspects of the delivery. Yeah, very difficult to just highlight one point there. It's a really fantastic discussion. TIM FITCHES: Thanks, Matt, moving on to the next group, Anna and Bev, let's have your group please. BEV: Yeah, we've got reams and reams of notes here, a really great discussion, thanks to everybody in the group. There was general just very excited to see the work of the Collective, which is great. One concern was about it being too obsessed with evaluation and that evaluation isn't everything, so that was brought out. Anyone else in the group, if you want to chip in on that, then please do. Yeah, just concerned about evaluation being the whole focus and more of a focus, really on disabled people's participation generally. And then there were lots of interesting ideas and thoughts about how people would like to be involved in the future, which we can share with the group, and also -- just one point, but just kind of a lot of discussion about co-production as well, and how take that meaningful, and how it should be about really kind of embedding organisational change and a cultural shift rather than just looking at the evaluation side of things. So yeah, great discussion. Thank you. TIM FITCHES: Thank you, Bev. Next let's hear from Alissa, 33 please. ALISSA: Thanks, Tim, and everyone. Again, really lovely and great discussion in our group, and the half an hour just whizzed by, so I feel like we could have done another half an hour there at least. Really hard to pick one point out to highlight, but almost everybody I think mentioned co-production, first of all in terms of the interests in the beginning and how it was referenced with the Collective in the first half an hour of the meeting. But also, just in terms of there was some good shared learning, so an example in Croydon, where young people were involved in the co-production element and now that's been monitored and evaluated as part of some public health work, so that was a really good insight to share. But amongst the group I think there was recognition that people wanted to be able to involve disabled people more, and ensure that those people that are inactive are involved within decision making in terms of physical activity, in the respective areas and programs. But that capacities and resources maybe is something that people don't feel like they have, and maybe confidence, as well, in that area, in terms of being able to kind of practically implement some co-production elements. So yeah, it was again, really great discussion. We could have talked for 34 longer. Lots of other points but that will be the one I'll feed back. TIM FITCHES: Thanks, Alissa. There's so much, isn't there, to talk about this morning, 2 hours and half an hour in a breakout room is never going to be enough. Thank you, let's come back to Tim Bidey. TIM BIDEY: Yeah, not the main point but I'll make a different point to previous groups, and I feel obliged to say that our group had a really good discussion as well. Connecting couple of points really, in our group we talked about how for something like the Collective to work and for these changes to be achieved, there is that real need to get everyone on board with this. It can't just be delivery organisations, it needs to be funders and other organisations as well. And actually, if you do that, it's a chance to think outside the box. We focused on standardised and non-standardised tools quite a bit today, but one of our main points of discussion was actually, if you have so many people in the room around the same thing, there's a chance to change broader culture and maybe there's something the Collective can do in terms of championing the power of storytelling as well, and bringing kind of qualitative data collection, almost equal to quantitative data collection in a way that it's not always seen as. And 35 then just following on briefly from that, and I think it's a really important point, is when we're talking about all of these things, just a reminder that what comes out of it needs to be really practical. It's the larger organisations that have the resource, the capacities to take part in things like this and things like the collective. But it's the really small organisations who do most of this work on the ground, and whatever comes out of this in terms of thinking about data collection, different tools, storytelling, we need to make sure that it's really easy for them to pick up and use regardless of their level of experience in the space. TIM FITCHES: Thanks, Tim, some great points there from your group. In the interest of balance, did anyone's group not have a good discussion? I'm sure we all did. Two left. Matthew McGuire and Greg, your group. MATTHEW: We had a fantastic discussion. So we did have a great session. No, really, really good and actually, Tim, just going on your point there, I think one consistent theme, we covered so much but one consistent theme I kept coming back to is the confidence of being part of the Collective or knowing that the Collective exists and what that brings to organisations that previously may have been slightly isolated or slightly 36 an anxious about whether they are doing the right thing and they are actually working together in this environment across different sectors with different organisations that have different priorities, yet all looking for the same thing, it's so important and it really validates the work that people are doing in order to improve. We kept on coming back to that, how we build that confidence in the Collective and we had a good discussion around really ensuring that people are being listened to, that the co-production happens but not only that, then that is disseminated, broader than the Collective across different organisations, events like this, newsletters to get it out, all of that constant communication and evidence that these conversations are happening and this work is going on, it's just so important. So I think that was probably the biggest theme away from kind of specific challenges and solutions that people moved on, I think that's where the role of the Collective and kind of broader organisations fit in, certainly. Thank you everyone who in my room, I really enjoyed it. TIM FITCHES: Thank you Matthew, that great. Just to the last group then, that was Jessica and Gemma I think. >> Yeah, happy to come in here. You will be surprised to hear we also had a great discussion and yeah, one of 37 the main points was about how collecting, you know, this information consistently can allow us all to show, show a bigger impact, you know, driving meaningful change that is you know inspiring other people to do the same thing and do more in this arena as well. Another point that I thought was quite good was for a way for people to be involve in the Collective who aren't necessarily experts of evaluation or co-production, it's so important to kind of allow to us test things and get their feedback as well. So, yeah... TIM FITCHES: Thank you Jess, that's brilliant, thank you to everyone. Notetakers and facilitators and to all the people that took part in those groups. So we have got ten minutes left, we're going to open the floor for any questions, please feel free to come off mic, raise your hand, pop it in the chat, if that's easier. Just while I give you the chance to think about that, I want to flag that today is about building the movement for us, with this collective and growing awareness growing interest in it we are going to share a simple do-question form survey in the chat, where you can stay in touch or become a member. Emma if you can share that link in the next moment or so, before people start to drift off, just in case you have got a 12.30. We would love to stay in touch, we hope you want to stay in touch 38 do. So on that note, ten minutes left, some great topics that have been raised would anyone like to come in with a question in the chat or to come in verbally? >> Tim, Alex from the breakout group. In terms of the connection with Sport England, into the system partner evaluation that we are currently in the process of co designing with Sport England, I think we are. Is the thoughts are, you feeding that back in to that arena from the from an NGB point of view. TIM FITCHES: I suppose I'm best placed to answer that, I'm one of eight people in the evaluation team at sport England and we work with the partnerships' team, we work with all the partners across that to design the innovation learning that we will use, we will talk a lot and the findings from today and all the key points we will definitely feed that in. The same principles have come up, you know, the value of co-production, not least among them, but thank you Alex for raising that. Ashley I think you had your hand up. >> Thanks, Tim. Yeah, just sort of building on that point of Sport England and NGBs, so I think the next part is bringing everyone on the same journey so there is a sort of collective approach, because it's so individually- led through NGBs or if there is a drive or a particular umm... sort of, you know, individual 39 with -- it's just so hit and miss on whether you get a good response, or whether you get a brick wall or, you know, try and engineer something. I would be interesting to see what the feedback from Sport England on that is, to make sure at a local level and regionally, to make sure that's really pushed out through the clubs. TIM FITCHES: Thank you Ashley, yeah, we are all conscious that we need to get a lot closer to the communities and to the people receiving these services. So I'm not sure I have the answer to that. I think we are always keen to hear what you think and I'd perhaps invite anyone else to share experiences too and tell us how we can do it differently to help with that. Am going to reflect on that one, I haven't got a ready answer for it. >> No, that fine. It's just an open thing you know, I think the value of the group and the work that it is sort of working towards will really push that and challenge Sport England who, you know, essentially, you know, not being held to account to that level but really need to push that through at NGBs because they sort of drift into things, you know, so it's making sure that that whole sort of club network and framework is fully inclusive and getting that right from the off. TIM FITCHES: I guess that's where the culture comes in and 40 it's very important, that we are kind off pointing in the same direction, we want the same thing and we have to perhaps join forces and understand where we are all coming from. Ashley, I'm sure that's one we will come back through our work as well. There is some good comments going on in the side bar. We had an earlier question about the not forgetting impact on mental health. Anna Web, I think that's one you shared and that's one that interests me as well. Mental health sometimes feels, dare I say, the odd one out in disability. Mental health of course, is very important, I wonder if there are any thoughts there from the panel and the audience about how we can include mental health in this as well? >> I think you need to include mental health as a matter of course when you are making arguments, because there is no health without mental health. You know. I know to my cost, I've had a long history with mental illness and, you know, physical activity was a big part of my recovery, as was peer support. So, you know, it's a vital piece of mental health recovery, and, you know, there is loads more people now who are going to need mental health services and just providing places where they can go and exercise with like-minded people, and share ideas and everything can mean that they don't need 41 mental health services. TIM FITCHES: Thank you Anna. Thank you very much for sharing that. Yeah, it makes me immediately think that I'm not sure we have representation on the Collective from any organisations that support mental health. I'm thinking of manned mind or Rethink Mental health, I maybe wrong on that one. >> Can I come in. >> Oh go on, sorry. >> No go on. >> I was formally at Rethink, Tim, and worked with you on the 'we're unbeatable projects' I was just thinking how this intersects with the other groups and networks that are working in the long-term health condition spaces and obviously that includes mental health and people living with severe mental illnesses, so yeah, I think, having a think around how this group can then work together with other networks and share the learning and also learn from those more established networks as well and what works for them. But yeah, I also agree with Anna's last point around, around -- obviously having worked on that project with yourselves and on supporting people with mental illness through peer support networks, yeah definitely. TIM FITCHES: Thank you very much Barry for coming in. 42 >> That all right. TIM FITCHES: That's wonderful. Alex, we will come to you and then I think it might have to be the last question before we close the meeting, because we're getting close to 12 pun 30, but Alex. >> Oh, thank you Tim. I was just going to mention what you were going to go on to say, to have representation on the Collective from individuals or organisations that work within mental health and wider wellbeing. Just to sort of, again, elevate the importance that physical activity can have in that kind of, kind of bring things together as a collective, that was just my point really. TIM FITCHES: Thank you very much Alex, yeah. I think through the event today it's making us all appreciate what a big network we are part of and how much we can help each other to join forces. So, I think on that note, unfortunately we do have to bring the session to a close. It's been, it's been fantastic. It's been genuinely wonderful to have so many people here, so much breadth and depth of experience. I think we know what the challenges are and I think, again, we have to sort of recognise that we are all pointing in the same direction, we all want to help more people experience the benefits of physical activity and there is lots of ways we can do that, through changing the culture, 43 through coproducing evaluation that is valuable, through telling a story, through treating people as individuals and starting with them, and there is a lot more besides that as well, we have covered so much in two hours. If you haven't already please do click on the link to tell us if you would like to stay in touch or if you would like to become a member of the Collective, and we will go back out to those of you and I think that we have follow-up from today's session as well. So, just remains for me to thank everybody who was involved in co order anything the event, to Disability Rights UK for organising the event and to the organising committee, a lot of hard work went into this and to everyone for attending and contributing to such valuable discussion. This won't be the end of that discussion and we are really excited on where we go next with this and we look forward to talking and working with many of you in the future. On behalf of the Collective thank you for joy nothing us today and we with you all a pleasant afternoon. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks everyone. >> Thank you all. >> Thank you very much. [End]. 44 THIS DRAFT TRANSCRIPT WAS ORIGINALLY PROVIDED AS COMMUNICATION SUPPORT FOR A DEAFENED READER. IT IS NOT A FULLY CHECKED AND VERIFIED RECORD, AND, AS SUCH, MAY CONTAIN ERRORS. IT HAS NO LEGAL STANDING AND IS NOT FOR FURTHER CIRCULATION. 45